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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics on podcast episode

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number 306 the third of May welcome to

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may 20 21 April long I think April was

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about April May June July and November

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all wrapped into one it seemed like a

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very long month but here in Australia

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oh it's Richardson is here by the way

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from Sydney Australia here in Australia

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in Sydney at least in the state of New

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South Wales things are being a little

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bit more relaxed they've let us visit

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people and a few more things so

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hopefully we're all on the right track

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but I'm not alone in thinking it's all

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beginning to feel like a dream but there

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is still much to look forward to and I

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think there's much to look forward to on

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this week's episode of the skeptic zone

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we're gonna start with a story about a

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magazine that's been yanked pulled

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kicked out given its marching orders

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from the shelves of two very popular and

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big supermarket chains here in Australia

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Woolworths and Coles the magazine in

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question is called what doctors don't

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tell you why don't they tell you

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everything what what is this what what

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are they keeping from you why would

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doctors not be telling you things find

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out with our story covering what doctors

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don't tell you professor Darren Saunders

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and radio host Ben Fordham and stay

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tuned at the end of the show for an

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update this story coming up was recorded

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a few days ago and since then there's

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been an update which I will bring you at

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the end of the show when will we be free

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of conspiracies that's what I want to

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know after that it's the new favorite on

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the skeptics oh no logical fallacies

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with Michelle Vickers ma and Michelle

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will be talking this week about the

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false dilemma also known as the false

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dichotomy the either/or and the false

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choice this is when an argument is

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framed as having having only two options

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or conclusions when there are

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in fact other logical alternatives the

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false dilemma coming up a little bit

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later on with Michelle Vickers MA and if

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you go to skeptic zone TV and have a

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look down the little faces of the people

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taking part in this week you'll see a

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wonderful caricature done by the

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fabulous Celestia Ward from two head

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Studios I think it really captures

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Michelle very well after that it's the

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book of Tim Tim Mendham comes back with

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a look at Stonehenge what's the deal

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with Stonehenge and Tim will make brief

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reference to a book by Lyn Kelly called

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the memory code and I'll certainly add a

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link to that book in this week's show

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notes a wonderful book then to round off

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the show a blast from the past from 2002

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when a very young sort of young Richard

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Saunders went to East Side radio FM here

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in Sydney Australia it's a community

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radio station and I was very recently

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made president of the Australian

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skeptics and I was asked to come on

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radio to talk about skepticism what the

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Australian skeptics do and that sort of

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thing well it's really interesting

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listening to that to hear me all those

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years ago the basic principles I talk

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about are much the same I think I hope

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I've learned a lot in the 18 years since

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this recording but the foundation I

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think is still firm see what do you

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think see if I made a goose out of

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myself I'll have to ask me not about

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making a goose out of himself at the end

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of the show speaking about may nodding

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being a goose I don't know if you've

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caught up with the fact that every

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Friday evening at 8:30 p.m. Sydney time

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at Maynard comdataís you or more

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importantly at the Facebook side of may

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not he does a live stream a live

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half-hour show of just being a real

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dagger a real goose jumping around his

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lounge room playing some great hits and

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video clips and things like that worth

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checking out great fun

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I set back with a drink the other night

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and I really enjoyed the the show done

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by may not and you can enjoy that next

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Friday night well that's enough for me

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at the moment stay tuned at the end of

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the show for

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an update to the what doctors don't tell

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you story and some other announcements

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from me but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs and folks because I have

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walked something in the order of a

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hundred kilometers this week I kid you

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not

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I've looked at the data gathered by my

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Apple watch which tracks my activities

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I've walked about a hundred kilometres

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to be fit because the gym shutting you

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know the story I'm going to indulge

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myself I think I'm going to have some Oh

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peanut M&Ms or maybe some Dutch licorice

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yeah well I do that I hope you enjoy the

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skeptic zone

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[Music]

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conspiracy theories what would skeptics

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do without conspiracy theories what

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would we talk about it seems to me that

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the the root of many things that we talk

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about or discuss or take action against

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in our society these days are conspiracy

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theories when you think about it look at

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the anti-vaccination crowd a lot of what

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they believe in boils down to conspiracy

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theories there is a conspiracy from the

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evil one world government or whomever

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Bill Gates maybe to keep us all sick and

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then sell us vaccinations there is a

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conspiracy to keep us in the dark about

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the microchips inject it into babies I

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wonder if they're the same microchips

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that fall out of the skies with

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chemtrails that's another conspiracy

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theory who shot JFK well that's a

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conspiracy theory they trying to hide

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the truth from you which brings me to

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the title of a magazine here in

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Australia actually it's it's Australia

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/ New Zealand but I think this is

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originally from the UK the magazine is

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called or maybe it's America the

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magazine is called what doctors don't

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tell you and again it's largely based on

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conspiracy misinformation and I've got a

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copy right here let me have a look

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protect yourself

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from Wi-Fi and 5g a step-by-step guide

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to staying safe page 60 what doctors

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don't tell you and inside the very front

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cover here the first big full-page

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glossy ad is for mr. vitamins well-being

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clinic and there's one not too far from

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where I live actually missed the

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vitamins well-being clinic offers a

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variety of natural health modalities

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including nutrition naturopathy herbal

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medicine iridology aromatherapy and

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massage our qualified our qualified team

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of practitioners advocated a holistic

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approach to healing

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and naturopathy nutritional medicine

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functional testing functional testing

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homeopathy aromatherapy iridology it

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goes on on the very back page of this

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issue of the magazine we have an ad for

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what looks to be like a green disc polar

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raid first demonstrated by Georges The

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Hoff ski and Nikola Tesla

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oh poor Tesla his name gets dragged

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through everything doesn't it this is a

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green disc according to the ads you

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place on your stomach on your dog on

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your throat on your Ford on your foot

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improved energy vitality and more I

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think you get the idea

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Oh watch our video ww Polaroid

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health.com well well okay have a large

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drink and have a look at that video oh

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what's the fine print these statements

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have not been evaluated by the US drug

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and Food Administration or Health Canada

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or any other regulatory body in any in

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any countries this product is not

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intended to dispense medical advice

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diagnose treat cure or prevent any

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disease or condition I guess it looks

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nice though wellness at your fingertips

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it says there's that term again wellness

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now I mentioned this magazine and it's a

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similar sort of magazine to ones we've

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seen in Australia for years like new

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dawn Nexus 14 times and I think a lot of

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these magazines started life as UFO

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magazines basically and they've moved on

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to so-called new science still they

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still do cover UFOs fear mongering

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alternative health lots lots of 5g

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conspiracy theories but this magazine

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what doctors don't tell you which of

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course boils down to conspiracy theories

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I'm gonna have a look at page 60 here we

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go protecting yourself against 5g and

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the graphic is a woman with a phone a

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cell phone up to

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and sort of scrunching up her face and

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as if she's in pain then wonders why

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she's using the phone as of a few days

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ago this magazine has been pulled off

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the shelves of two leading supermarkets

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here in Australia supermarket chains

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that being Coles and Woolworths and this

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came about because the University of New

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South Wales associate professor of

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medical science dr. Darren Saunders

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no relation I don't think discovered the

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magazine on a shopping trip and he

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thought what I what can I do about this

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it's full of very bad information and

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especially in these this current

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environment of the kovat 19 possibly

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very bad information indeed he contacted

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Ben Fordham the journalist and radio

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broadcaster over at radio 2gb now it

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must be said that radio 2gb it's one of

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Australia's oldest torque radios I guess

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and it is a bit of a mixed bag but I

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must say by and large Australian

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skeptics have had a pretty good run on

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2gb I mean the it does promote climate

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denial which is a pity but over the

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years over the 20 years I've been doing

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this I've been on radio 2 GB many times

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most notably a couple years back I had a

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regular segment with the late-night show

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by Mike Williams and before that I would

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often find myself in the studio to

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discuss skeptical matters and take a

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call back talk back with the host Glenn

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wheeler very popular radio host sadly a

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number of years ago he was involved in a

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motor accident and has been unable to

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return to full-time work which is a

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great pity lovely bloke Glenn wheeler

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and various other radio hosts have had

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me on to bend spoons and talk about this

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that or the other I don't think I don't

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think I've been on with Ben Fordham

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nevertheless dr. Saunders rang up Ben

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Fordham and did

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spot-on air which I will play some

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highlights from now why is there so much

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dodgy medical advice doing the rounds

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we've been speaking about the dangerous

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nutter Pete Evans and he's cuckoo

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theories about machines with recipes for

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coronavirus well now I've got some

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serious questions for the major

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supermarkets to answer because if you go

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into Cole's or Woolworths today you'll

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find a magazine for sale at the checkout

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it's called what doctors don't tell you

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and it's filled with dangerous

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misinformation and dodgy health advice

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and if you go to their website and I'm

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are keen to give you the web address

274
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because I don't want to send them any

275
00:13:17,299 --> 00:13:13,529
more traffic

276
00:13:19,329 --> 00:13:17,309
the stories are even worse there are

277
00:13:23,210 --> 00:13:19,339
stories on the website linking vaccines

278
00:13:26,749 --> 00:13:23,220
to autism reports claiming that fluoride

279
00:13:28,699 --> 00:13:26,759
lowers the IQ of children and there is a

280
00:13:31,819 --> 00:13:28,709
report downplaying the danger of

281
00:13:34,819 --> 00:13:31,829
coronavirus what is Coles and Woolies

282
00:13:37,449 --> 00:13:34,829
doing allowing these nutcases to spread

283
00:13:40,429 --> 00:13:37,459
this dangerous stuff at their checkouts

284
00:13:42,259 --> 00:13:40,439
doctor Darren Saunders is an associate

285
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:42,269
professor of medical science at the

286
00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:44,610
University of New South Wales he brought

287
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:46,230
it to our attention and he joins us on

288
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:47,970
the line dr. Darren Saunders good

289
00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:51,120
afternoon oh yeah I can't believe the

290
00:13:54,259 --> 00:13:52,740
rubbish in these magazines and I can't

291
00:13:57,019 --> 00:13:54,269
believe that Woolies and Coles are

292
00:13:58,220 --> 00:13:57,029
selling them at the checkout oh look I

293
00:13:59,720 --> 00:13:58,230
was doing my shopping late last night

294
00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:59,730
you know to avoid the crowds as we're

295
00:14:02,929 --> 00:14:01,620
supposed to be and standing the checkout

296
00:14:05,059 --> 00:14:02,939
line I couldn't believe it when I saw

297
00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:05,069
this thing it really um you know there's

298
00:14:08,419 --> 00:14:07,230
a reason the reason doctors don't tell

299
00:14:11,179 --> 00:14:08,429
you the stuff that's in here and that's

300
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:11,189
because it's dangerous so when they say

301
00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:12,779
what doctors don't tell you they don't

302
00:14:16,549 --> 00:14:15,300
tell you it because it's BS yeah that's

303
00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:16,559
right there's a really good reason that

304
00:14:19,610 --> 00:14:18,089
doctors tell you what's been sort of

305
00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:19,620
magazine and and you're right I mean the

306
00:14:23,499 --> 00:14:21,480
website is even more terrifying and the

307
00:14:26,239 --> 00:14:23,509
Facebook page is even more terrifying

308
00:14:27,439 --> 00:14:26,249
it's really these kind of magazines

309
00:14:29,059 --> 00:14:27,449
there's a trick to them you know they

310
00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:29,069
put stuff in there there's little bits

311
00:14:32,929 --> 00:14:30,660
of science and there's very science here

312
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:32,939
sounding words and they kind of use it

313
00:14:35,929 --> 00:14:34,410
as a hook to drag you into all the

314
00:14:37,579 --> 00:14:35,939
conspiracy stuff into the dangerous

315
00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:37,589
advice around vaccines and everything

316
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,529
else so that was dr. Darren Saunders

317
00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:43,199
appearing on Radio 2 GB with Ben forum

318
00:14:48,810 --> 00:14:46,030
and the page

319
00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:48,820
from the radio station about this item

320
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:50,950
which I will link to in the show notes

321
00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:52,180
and you can hear the whole interview

322
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:55,030
there for yourself Supermarket scrapped

323
00:15:01,080 --> 00:14:58,290
dangerous conspiracy magazines

324
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:01,090
Australia's two largest supermarkets

325
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:03,610
have agreed to stop selling an anti

326
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:05,410
vaccination alternative medicine

327
00:15:10,290 --> 00:15:07,570
magazine at their checkouts and in their

328
00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:10,300
aisles after being called up by Ben

329
00:15:15,510 --> 00:15:12,580
forum the magazine what doctors don't

330
00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:15,520
tell you is stacked page to page with

331
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:17,200
conspiracies dangerous misinformation

332
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:20,800
and dodgy medical advice on the front

333
00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:23,530
page hydrogen gas is advocated as a

334
00:15:29,730 --> 00:15:26,680
heart disease treatment and it warns of

335
00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:29,740
dangers associated with 5g and Wi-Fi

336
00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:32,200
networks the magazine's website contains

337
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:34,150
further unfounded claims linking

338
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:36,210
vaccinations with autism and fluoride

339
00:15:42,810 --> 00:15:40,630
with lower IQ in children the article

340
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:42,820
goes on to say University of New South

341
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:44,770
Wales associate professor of medical

342
00:15:49,020 --> 00:15:46,870
science dr. Darren Saunders discovered

343
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:49,030
the magazine on a shopping trip and told

344
00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:51,130
Ben Fordham he couldn't believe what he

345
00:15:55,580 --> 00:15:53,950
was seeing despite initially defending

346
00:15:58,680 --> 00:15:55,590
their decision to stop the magazine

347
00:16:00,330 --> 00:15:58,690
following the interview Cole's committed

348
00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:00,340
to removing it from all their stores

349
00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:01,390
nationwide

350
00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:04,300
Woolworths has since followed suit in

351
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:06,550
forming their supply they'll be removing

352
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:09,730
the magazine from sale but say quote the

353
00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:11,470
decision to stock the magazine doesn't

354
00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:13,750
mean we endorse the editorial views it

355
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:17,080
holds in quote been commended both

356
00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:20,320
supermarkets for responding so strongly

357
00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:23,500
and so quickly now this story was picked

358
00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:28,120
up by the news.com today.you website

359
00:16:33,690 --> 00:16:30,340
which says Coles and Woolworths have

360
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:33,700
bowed to a push from Sydney radio host

361
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:36,370
Ben forum to pull a magazine from

362
00:16:41,820 --> 00:16:40,090
shelves nationwide a magazine spouting

363
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,830
complimentary therapies and alternative

364
00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:43,600
medicines and telling readers how to

365
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:46,150
protect themselves from 5g has been

366
00:16:52,650 --> 00:16:48,760
yanked from Coles and Woolworths shelves

367
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:52,660
nationwide the decision for on the April

368
00:16:57,930 --> 00:16:55,540
May 2020 dissing of what doctors don't

369
00:16:59,879 --> 00:16:57,940
tell you was made on Tuesday afternoon

370
00:17:02,579 --> 00:16:59,889
after radio 2 GB hosts

371
00:17:05,009 --> 00:17:02,589
Ben Fordham expressed outrage at being

372
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,019
stalked in Australia's two biggest

373
00:17:09,659 --> 00:17:07,689
supermarkets it goes on to say in a

374
00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:09,669
statement to news calm today you on

375
00:17:16,769 --> 00:17:13,480
Tuesday a cold spokesman said what

376
00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:16,779
doctors don't tell you magazine quote

377
00:17:22,679 --> 00:17:20,529
was ranged as part of the two-week trial

378
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:22,689
of new magazine titles under an

379
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:24,370
arrangement with our supplier in quote

380
00:17:30,330 --> 00:17:27,250
and it will not be part of the available

381
00:17:32,129 --> 00:17:30,340
range going forward Royal Australian

382
00:17:34,850 --> 00:17:32,139
College for general practitioners

383
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:34,860
president dr. Harry Ness Pollan

384
00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:37,600
applauded the decision calling it an

385
00:17:44,220 --> 00:17:41,220
exercise in corporate responsibility

386
00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:44,230
quote doctors aren't keeping anything

387
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:46,990
from you we are working as hard as we

388
00:17:52,769 --> 00:17:49,360
can to help our patients every day and

389
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:52,779
quote dr. ness Pollan said quote now

390
00:17:57,870 --> 00:17:55,600
more than ever we need to heed expert

391
00:18:00,299 --> 00:17:57,880
medical advice and ignore pseudo

392
00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:00,309
scientific nonsense and myths that will

393
00:18:06,330 --> 00:18:04,630
cure kovat 19 and all else I understand

394
00:18:08,639 --> 00:18:06,340
that people are anxious and suffering

395
00:18:11,879 --> 00:18:08,649
from information overload but please

396
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:11,889
apply a sniff test to information you

397
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:13,570
are seeing on social media or

398
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:16,809
supermarket shelves instead listen to

399
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,080
your local GP because expert advice

400
00:18:25,259 --> 00:18:22,480
matters and we're all doing what we can

401
00:18:27,870 --> 00:18:25,269
to keep you safe and well end quote

402
00:18:30,779 --> 00:18:27,880
the what doctors don't tell you magazine

403
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:30,789
began as a newsletter in 1989 ah there

404
00:18:34,259 --> 00:18:31,120
you go

405
00:18:36,539 --> 00:18:34,269
published by author Lynne McTaggart and

406
00:18:40,220 --> 00:18:36,549
her husband Brian Hubbard who recently

407
00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:40,230
held a series of covert 19 women ARS

408
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:43,870
according to its uk-based website quote

409
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:46,090
what doctors don't tell you publishes

410
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,250
the latest health care news alongside

411
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:50,320
information on complementary therapies

412
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:53,049
and alternative medicines with a host of

413
00:18:57,870 --> 00:18:55,330
features and stories written by leading

414
00:19:00,600 --> 00:18:57,880
experts and our highly respected regular

415
00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:00,610
contributors and quote it states and

416
00:19:03,779 --> 00:19:02,350
there's a little bit more information on

417
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:03,789
that page but I'll certainly link to it

418
00:19:07,649 --> 00:19:05,769
in this week's show notes so what's the

419
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:07,659
positive here what's the positive out of

420
00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:09,850
this whole crazy situation with curve at

421
00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:13,150
19 and the damage it's doing around the

422
00:19:18,510 --> 00:19:15,340
in every cloud has a silver lining of

423
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:18,520
course and one of the advantages are one

424
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:19,960
of the positives to come out of this

425
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:24,490
whole situation is that magazines like

426
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:26,080
this and dodgy health advice and

427
00:19:30,420 --> 00:19:28,210
practitioners who were sort of flying

428
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:30,430
under the radar in times past have now

429
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:33,670
come to the fore because the authorities

430
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:35,770
are taking their claims seriously at

431
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:39,510
last we might say and we hope that

432
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:42,370
together with the action taken against

433
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:43,600
Pete Evans you would have heard about

434
00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:46,390
last week and his machine the so-called

435
00:19:50,580 --> 00:19:48,940
bio charger which shall friend pontus

436
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:50,590
Bookman said it was a cross between a

437
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,110
fax machine and a Dalek well these sort

438
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:55,360
of things are now coming to the

439
00:19:59,370 --> 00:19:56,530
attention of the right sort of people

440
00:20:02,310 --> 00:19:59,380
and they are taking action so maybe in

441
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:02,320
the weeks to come we can report things

442
00:20:08,010 --> 00:20:04,650
to you like action taken against the

443
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:08,020
outrageous claims made at the moment on

444
00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:10,270
the website of homeopathy plus they've

445
00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:12,840
got a whole section devoted to Co vat19

446
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:15,640
and other practitioners around the

447
00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:18,400
country and also have similar outrageous

448
00:20:22,170 --> 00:20:20,590
claims which is a good chance for me to

449
00:20:25,550 --> 00:20:22,180
remind you again of something we

450
00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:25,560
mentioned last week the website Corona

451
00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:29,950
conspiracy dot cloud is up and running

452
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:33,070
it's a fascinating thing to look at

453
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:35,260
because if you go there you can see what

454
00:20:39,150 --> 00:20:37,330
other people have been uploading what

455
00:20:41,790 --> 00:20:39,160
they found in their travels on the

456
00:20:44,820 --> 00:20:41,800
internet Facebook or out and about and

457
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:44,830
you can see for yourself examples of

458
00:20:51,030 --> 00:20:49,030
quacks and others promoting their cures

459
00:20:54,780 --> 00:20:51,040
or treatments or Prevention's for covert

460
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,790
19 I'm just at the site now and there's

461
00:20:59,940 --> 00:20:57,280
one there for a kinesiologist there's

462
00:21:01,440 --> 00:20:59,950
also some homeopathic information up

463
00:21:04,050 --> 00:21:01,450
there are there general conspiracy

464
00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:04,060
theories it's worth a look it's a good

465
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:05,980
reference and if you find something if

466
00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:09,310
you find something that purports to be a

467
00:21:15,390 --> 00:21:12,750
cure treatment prevention for covert 19

468
00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:15,400
you can take a screen capture of it

469
00:21:22,830 --> 00:21:18,160
photograph of it and go to conspiracy

470
00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:22,840
cloud and upload that for us all to see

471
00:21:27,490 --> 00:21:25,390
but getting back to another issue that's

472
00:21:30,530 --> 00:21:27,500
been raised about

473
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:30,540
this what doctors don't tell you being

474
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:31,860
taken off the shelves at very

475
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:34,770
supermarkets there is the cry now of

476
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:37,410
this is censorship and we need to read

477
00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:39,450
whatever we can read well people still

478
00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:41,940
can get this magazine and go to their

479
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:43,500
website and look at their articles I

480
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:47,280
think it's still available in news

481
00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:49,110
agencies well it is because I bought one

482
00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:51,660
myself there just the other day but

483
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:53,580
that's a debate maybe for another time

484
00:22:00,170 --> 00:21:57,960
this issue I have right here I guess

485
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,180
it'll go into the skeptical archives and

486
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:02,880
don't forget you can follow the links of

487
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:04,980
the articles and the items I've

488
00:22:09,290 --> 00:22:07,050
mentioned in this week's show notes and

489
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:09,300
someone asked me the other day where are

490
00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:10,530
these show notes well if you go to

491
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:14,190
skeptic zone TV you can see a listing of

492
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:16,350
the last four or five six seven episodes

493
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:17,850
of all the show notes right there

494
00:22:22,550 --> 00:22:20,490
including time codes so you can jump

495
00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:22,560
right to the section you're interested

496
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:25,920
in and then once those disappear from

497
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:27,780
the homepage if you click the episodes

498
00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:29,910
link you can see all the episodes going

499
00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:33,000
back 12 years plus the show notes and

500
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:34,340
it's searchable too

501
00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:44,880
[Music]

502
00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:47,620
PSA's Brian Dunning from skeptoid here

503
00:22:52,350 --> 00:22:50,860
quarantine away in Central Oregon a few

504
00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:52,360
weeks ago I was supposed to speak at an

505
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:53,830
academic conference on conspiracy

506
00:22:58,049 --> 00:22:56,559
theories in Miami but like all the

507
00:23:00,600 --> 00:22:58,059
world's other in-person conferences

508
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,610
whose cancelled due to Cove in nineteen

509
00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:03,039
so I was asked to put my talk online

510
00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:05,860
it's called we are all conspiracy

511
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:07,960
theorists and it's a complete survey of

512
00:23:12,299 --> 00:23:09,730
the whole phenomenon of conspiratorial

513
00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:12,309
thinking I hope you enjoy it and please

514
00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:20,160
to watch we are all conspiracy theorists

515
00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:23,080
now search YouTube for skeptoid media

516
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:25,630
and click on our logo it's also easy to

517
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:27,850
find on Facebook on the skeptoid media

518
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:31,090
page we are all conspiracy theorists

519
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:35,110
online now please enjoy

520
00:23:59,500 --> 00:23:57,570
[Music]

521
00:24:02,279 --> 00:23:59,510
logical fallacies

522
00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:02,289
[Music]

523
00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:05,809
what are logical fallacies and why is it

524
00:24:09,779 --> 00:24:07,700
important that critical thinkers should

525
00:24:12,539 --> 00:24:09,789
know about them

526
00:24:15,570 --> 00:24:12,549
a logical fallacy is an error we can

527
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:15,580
make in reasoning but it usually crops

528
00:24:21,570 --> 00:24:17,830
up when we are discussing or arguing our

529
00:24:23,999 --> 00:24:21,580
point of view some people might even

530
00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:24,009
knowingly use them to try and score

531
00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:26,200
cheap points in an argument due to

532
00:24:31,769 --> 00:24:28,440
intellectual laziness

533
00:24:34,229 --> 00:24:31,779
they are traps we can fall into but if

534
00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:34,239
we know what to look out for we can spot

535
00:24:41,999 --> 00:24:36,580
them when they occur and stop ourselves

536
00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:42,009
from using them this time we'll look at

537
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:45,700
the false dilemma also known as the

538
00:24:53,249 --> 00:24:50,320
false dichotomy the either-or and the

539
00:24:56,129 --> 00:24:53,259
false choice this is when an argument is

540
00:24:59,389 --> 00:24:56,139
framed as having only two options or

541
00:25:03,029 --> 00:24:59,399
conclusions when there are in fact other

542
00:25:05,489 --> 00:25:03,039
logical alternatives not all black and

543
00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:05,499
white situations are truly black and

544
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:08,849
white sometimes there are many other

545
00:25:15,659 --> 00:25:11,919
alternatives or shades of grey between

546
00:25:18,419 --> 00:25:15,669
the two extremes being asked to choose

547
00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:18,429
between the extremes can lead you to an

548
00:25:26,129 --> 00:25:22,409
unsatisfactory and even false conclusion

549
00:25:28,139 --> 00:25:26,139
the TV news show did a sting on a so

550
00:25:30,389 --> 00:25:28,149
called psychic and showed that she was

551
00:25:33,299 --> 00:25:30,399
nothing more than a con artist other

552
00:25:36,529 --> 00:25:33,309
psychics however cannot be explained

553
00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:36,539
away so easily so they must be real

554
00:25:42,299 --> 00:25:39,940
after many decades of investigations by

555
00:25:45,989 --> 00:25:42,309
Australian skeptics and people like

556
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:45,999
James Randi we know that many maybe the

557
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:48,129
majority of people claiming to be

558
00:25:54,989 --> 00:25:51,369
psychic or mystical healers are not con

559
00:25:59,129 --> 00:25:54,999
artists per se nor do they have genuine

560
00:26:02,849 --> 00:25:59,139
psychic powers many are to one degree or

561
00:26:05,639 --> 00:26:02,859
another deluded and really do think they

562
00:26:09,539 --> 00:26:05,649
have the powers they claim they can be

563
00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:09,549
honest caring people who only want to

564
00:26:14,849 --> 00:26:12,340
share what they perceive is their gift

565
00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:14,859
there are also performers known as

566
00:26:20,849 --> 00:26:18,190
mentalists who also use hot and cold

567
00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:20,859
reading techniques and a good at reading

568
00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:23,560
people in a psychological way

569
00:26:29,950 --> 00:26:27,020
this is a legitimate skill set and it's

570
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:29,960
valid entertainment these are the

571
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:33,200
possibilities however our one step too

572
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:36,130
far for most TV or other news

573
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:38,810
investigations that need to give their

574
00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:41,210
audience a simple choice and report

575
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:44,750
accordingly the psychic is either a con

576
00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:48,170
artist or the real deal never an

577
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:51,680
entertainer such as a Mentalist amateur

578
00:26:58,930 --> 00:26:54,770
psychologist or deluded but well-meaning

579
00:27:01,960 --> 00:26:58,940
person if you're not for me then you're

580
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:01,970
against me this is a cry we've heard

581
00:27:05,970 --> 00:27:04,310
from politics to religion and in many

582
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:05,980
other situations

583
00:27:12,670 --> 00:27:09,170
it's an underhanded way of polarizing

584
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:12,680
people to gain their support you might

585
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:15,470
agree with much of what someone says but

586
00:27:21,340 --> 00:27:17,990
at the same time have concerns or issues

587
00:27:23,950 --> 00:27:21,350
with other things not agreeing with

588
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:23,960
someone does not therefore mean you are

589
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:27,200
opposed to them I reject mainstream

590
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:29,810
medicine because lots of people die due

591
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:32,690
to medical accidents or misdiagnosis and

592
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,210
drug companies are just in it for the

593
00:27:41,620 --> 00:27:38,480
money it is true that medical accidents

594
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:41,630
and misdiagnosis occur human error is a

595
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:43,970
factor in everything that involves our

596
00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:47,750
input drug companies can indeed be

597
00:27:54,730 --> 00:27:52,070
profit driven too however to reject all

598
00:27:57,370 --> 00:27:54,740
evidence based medicine on these grounds

599
00:28:00,370 --> 00:27:57,380
and concede none of how often people are

600
00:28:03,630 --> 00:28:00,380
cured or saved is coming to an extreme

601
00:28:06,820 --> 00:28:03,640
conclusion based on a false dichotomy

602
00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:06,830
just because science based medical

603
00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:10,100
practice isn't all good it doesn't mean

604
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:12,470
that it must be all bad and we should

605
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,350
seek alternative medical treatments

606
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:21,460
it's so easy to be given a simple choice

607
00:28:27,850 --> 00:28:25,490
not too much to consider and with one of

608
00:28:32,049 --> 00:28:27,860
the choices made out to be the right one

609
00:28:34,419 --> 00:28:32,059
or the only real one to choose there are

610
00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:34,429
times when a choice like this is obvious

611
00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:39,100
for example is slavery good yes or no

612
00:28:46,049 --> 00:28:42,230
but for many situations the false

613
00:28:48,879 --> 00:28:46,059
dilemma can rob you of the real answer

614
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:48,889
next time we'll look at the opposite of

615
00:28:57,820 --> 00:28:51,289
the false dilemma that of the middle

616
00:29:00,399 --> 00:28:57,830
ground knowing a logical fallacy when

617
00:29:03,129 --> 00:29:00,409
you hear one and even knowing its name

618
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:03,139
is important when arguing your point of

619
00:29:09,610 --> 00:29:06,799
view however you may come across as

620
00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:09,620
arrogant and not get very far if you

621
00:29:15,940 --> 00:29:12,230
call it out by name to your opponent

622
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:15,950
when you hear it being used if your

623
00:29:20,830 --> 00:29:18,289
opponent calls you out for using one

624
00:29:24,669 --> 00:29:20,840
it's time to stop and think about how

625
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:24,679
you are making your case use your

626
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:26,990
knowledge of logical fallacies wisely

627
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:30,320
and remember that even if your point of

628
00:29:35,619 --> 00:29:32,570
view is right and you know all the

629
00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:35,629
pitfalls in arguing your case it doesn't

630
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:39,110
always mean you'll win on the day and a

631
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:42,529
skeptics we must also remember that we

632
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:48,320
too can be wrong at times I'm Michele

633
00:29:58,350 --> 00:29:50,210
bigger smart from the Vick skeptics

634
00:30:06,180 --> 00:30:02,750
[Music]

635
00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:06,190
hi this is susan gerbic from gso w

636
00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:08,590
that's guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia

637
00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:11,169
I want to thank everyone who via the

638
00:30:16,259 --> 00:30:13,870
skeptic zone podcast has contacted me to

639
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:16,269
become an editor on Wikipedia together

640
00:30:21,419 --> 00:30:18,760
we have worked on or created over 1200

641
00:30:23,159 --> 00:30:21,429
wikipedia pages countless thousands of

642
00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:23,169
people all over the world access those

643
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:26,470
pages each day in fact we're over 52

644
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:29,529
million page views like many listeners I

645
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,630
also give back to the skeptic zone via

646
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,760
monthly micropayment and I want to

647
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,919
encourage you to do the same is the

648
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:37,840
information and entertainment you get

649
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:39,970
each week from the show with five or ten

650
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:41,980
dollars a month I sure think it is

651
00:30:48,510 --> 00:30:45,580
follow the link at skeptic zone TV and

652
00:30:58,279 --> 00:30:48,520
show your practical support thank you

653
00:31:03,530 --> 00:30:58,289
[Music]

654
00:31:05,539 --> 00:31:03,540
and now a reading from the book of Tim

655
00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:05,549
[Music]

656
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:09,070
with Tim Mendham

657
00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:17,010
hi my name is Tim Mendham I'm the

658
00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:19,240
executive officer of Australian skeptics

659
00:31:23,850 --> 00:31:21,190
Inc and I'm also the editor of our

660
00:31:25,649 --> 00:31:23,860
magazine at the skeptic and today I'd

661
00:31:28,049 --> 00:31:25,659
like to read which is actually from a

662
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:28,059
book review published in the skeptic in

663
00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:30,820
September 2016

664
00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:36,279
and that would be vol 36 number 3 this

665
00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:45,640
is called please to remember there is a

666
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:47,020
huge number of buildings and

667
00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:48,490
constructions that are readily

668
00:31:53,220 --> 00:31:51,190
identifiable around the world mentioned

669
00:31:55,019 --> 00:31:53,230
the Taj Mahal the Empire State Building

670
00:31:57,060 --> 00:31:55,029
the Eiffel Tower the Sydney Opera House

671
00:31:59,460 --> 00:31:57,070
and you're pretty well confident that

672
00:32:01,440 --> 00:31:59,470
most people recognize them even if they

673
00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:01,450
aren't all sure where they are the

674
00:32:04,980 --> 00:32:02,740
ancient world has its own share of

675
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:04,990
instant recognition the Parthenon

676
00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:07,450
Great Wall of China the Colosseum the

677
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,470
Sphinx the pyramids and Stonehenge

678
00:32:15,510 --> 00:32:12,880
Stonehenge is a particular favorite site

679
00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:15,520
for me I was fortunate enough to visit

680
00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:17,140
it before they closed off the monument

681
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:19,720
itself to the prying eyes and prizing

682
00:32:23,850 --> 00:32:21,370
hands of the thousands of visitors it

683
00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:23,860
attracted you can still get in there but

684
00:32:29,490 --> 00:32:26,580
you have to be part of a tour or a druid

685
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,500
in those days and I'm talking frankly 40

686
00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:31,600
years ago you could walk around the

687
00:32:36,570 --> 00:32:34,360
trilithon xand stones touch the surface

688
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:36,580
see the marks measure out the distances

689
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:39,010
and no doubt feel the energy emanating

690
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:42,130
from every rock and pebble well it was

691
00:32:47,130 --> 00:32:44,409
40 years ago and energies were a lot

692
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:47,140
more feelable then of course the UK and

693
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:48,490
parts of Europe are rife with

694
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:51,039
Paleolithic Neolithic megalithic and

695
00:32:55,889 --> 00:32:54,159
other lithic leftovers stone circles

696
00:32:58,110 --> 00:32:55,899
wood circles mounds chimney light

697
00:32:59,340 --> 00:32:58,120
barrows hillside carvings you can only

698
00:33:01,680 --> 00:32:59,350
imagine it where these would have been

699
00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:01,690
like when everything was in place before

700
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:03,700
the ravages of time and the locals need

701
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:05,470
for building materials took their toll

702
00:33:13,139 --> 00:33:10,020
as of 2013 England alone had roughly

703
00:33:15,810 --> 00:33:13,149
20,000 ancient sites designated as

704
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:15,820
scheduled monuments and there are formal

705
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:17,890
and informal move to maintain as many of

706
00:33:22,530 --> 00:33:20,200
them as possible under the ancient

707
00:33:25,530 --> 00:33:22,540
monuments and archaeological areas act

708
00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:25,540
1979 it is a criminal offense to

709
00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:28,270
demolish destroyed damaged remove repair

710
00:33:33,330 --> 00:33:30,910
alter or add to a scheduled monument

711
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:33,340
unless prior consent has been obtained

712
00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:35,410
from the Secretary of State in the form

713
00:33:41,370 --> 00:33:39,190
of scheduled monument consent there have

714
00:33:42,810 --> 00:33:41,380
been several goes that returning stone

715
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:42,820
hangs to something approaching its

716
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:45,850
former glory up until 1918 it was

717
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:48,070
actually in private hands they wonder

718
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:49,750
preservation orders and over the last

719
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:51,610
century some stones have been lifted

720
00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:54,580
straightened and reinforced research

721
00:33:58,170 --> 00:33:56,470
into its construction continues apace

722
00:34:00,920 --> 00:33:58,180
with recent discoveries of further

723
00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:00,930
archaeological artifacts in the area in

724
00:34:05,490 --> 00:34:03,190
2014 the University of Birmingham

725
00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:05,500
announced the discovery of as many as 17

726
00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:08,710
new monuments revealed nearby Leighton

727
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:10,390
Neolithic monuments that resemble

728
00:34:15,180 --> 00:34:12,610
Stonehenge suggesting a complex of

729
00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:15,190
numerous related monuments one of the

730
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:17,140
more curious factoids about Stonehenge

731
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:18,730
is that Charles Darwin dabbled in

732
00:34:24,450 --> 00:34:22,000
archaeology there in 1877 experimenting

733
00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:24,460
with the rate at which remains sink into

734
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:26,830
the earth for his book the formation of

735
00:34:31,470 --> 00:34:28,390
vegetable mould through the action of

736
00:34:32,669 --> 00:34:31,480
worms the with a high profile comes the

737
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:32,679
widow's hopping onto the bandwagon

738
00:34:37,050 --> 00:34:34,960
pushing their own brands of science in

739
00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:37,060
fact with regard to the Great Pyramid

740
00:34:40,650 --> 00:34:38,620
and Stonehenge there are probably no

741
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:40,660
buildings that are more subject to wacky

742
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:43,330
theories everything from giant energy

743
00:34:48,060 --> 00:34:45,610
sources to alien landing spots biblical

744
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:48,070
predictors musical instruments at cetera

745
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:50,110
cetera casually heaped onto the

746
00:34:54,330 --> 00:34:52,090
buildings with book after book espousing

747
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:54,340
one shocking discovery or truth revealed

748
00:34:58,620 --> 00:34:56,650
after the other Erich von däniken

749
00:35:00,690 --> 00:34:58,630
mentions both along with Easter Island

750
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:00,700
Nazca lines and Australian Aborigine

751
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:03,490
legend in Chariots of the Gods question

752
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:06,010
mark you have to love that question mark

753
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:07,870
von Daniken played on the idea of a

754
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:09,970
mystery of salt not to mention a bet

755
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:11,530
each way and whether it was true or not

756
00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:13,570
if his answer being yes and as being

757
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:16,390
decidedly not the plethora of theories

758
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:18,730
on Stonehenge as in all areas of the

759
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:21,130
paranormal rely for their entry into the

760
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:22,930
field largely on the inability or

761
00:35:25,890 --> 00:35:24,790
unwillingness of scientists and

762
00:35:29,070 --> 00:35:25,900
researchers to be a hundred percent

763
00:35:30,540 --> 00:35:29,080
definitive John Fowles author of The

764
00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:30,550
Magus and the French Lieutenant's woman

765
00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:33,070
is a bit of a mystic himself or at least

766
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:36,280
one who likes to be one with nature

767
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:38,680
in his book the Enigma of Stonehenge he

768
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:41,170
suggests that quote the very and quite

769
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:43,660
proper caution of modern scientists in

770
00:35:48,030 --> 00:35:45,370
their conclusions about the ancient

771
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,040
realities of Stonehenge effectively

772
00:35:53,850 --> 00:35:51,280
leaves a huge empty space a feel for

773
00:35:56,910 --> 00:35:53,860
speculation in the less scientific mind

774
00:35:59,610 --> 00:35:56,920
in this Stonehenge remains almost like a

775
00:36:01,650 --> 00:35:59,620
blank sheet of paper in a world where in

776
00:36:04,740 --> 00:36:01,660
terms of knowledge blank sheets become

777
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:04,750
increasingly rare things since fails

778
00:36:09,450 --> 00:36:07,390
book appeared in 1980 continued research

779
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:09,460
has elicited much more about the

780
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:11,290
formation than was previously known or

781
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:14,230
suspected but it is the why as much as

782
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:17,410
the how that intrigues most people fails

783
00:36:21,090 --> 00:36:19,210
describes a public meeting he attended

784
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,100
while writing his book quote with a

785
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:22,720
packed audience of several hundred

786
00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:24,280
people to hear the principal living

787
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:26,590
authority on Stonehenge professor

788
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:29,920
richard atkinson who died in 1994 give a

789
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:31,690
lecture on the latest theories and

790
00:36:36,090 --> 00:36:34,330
discoveries concerning the monument we

791
00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:36,100
listened to an eminently lucid and

792
00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:37,840
clinical discourse on the most recent

793
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:39,790
datings of the major phases of building

794
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:41,170
and the results of the latest

795
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:43,750
excavations when this was done the

796
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,280
chairman the equally authoritative

797
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:47,200
professor Stuart Pickett called for

798
00:36:50,370 --> 00:36:47,770
questions

799
00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:50,380
they came some requests for various

800
00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:52,180
elucidation of technical points which

801
00:36:56,940 --> 00:36:54,280
were given then a young man stood up at

802
00:36:58,590 --> 00:36:56,950
the back would professor atkinson care

803
00:37:00,690 --> 00:36:58,600
to say anything about the peoples who

804
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:00,700
built the three main phases their

805
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,330
culture and religion Fowles said he

806
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:05,680
might as well have asked a synod of

807
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:07,330
Methodist ministers whether they would

808
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:09,490
consider publishing a new edition of the

809
00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:11,260
Marquis decides a hundred and twenty

810
00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:13,420
days of Sodom or the department of the

811
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:15,670
environment how we should apply to turn

812
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:18,490
Stonehenge in with disco all such

813
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:20,680
speculation was futile the wicked fellow

814
00:37:26,850 --> 00:37:24,640
was parentally told such information was

815
00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:26,860
strictly dependent on written records

816
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:28,240
the Stonehenge people did not have

817
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:30,160
writing we know nothing we would never

818
00:37:36,010 --> 00:37:32,290
know anything to speculate on such

819
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:36,020
matters was totally unscientific

820
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:38,930
now at this stage this article then went

821
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:41,090
into a review of the book by dr. Lynn

822
00:37:45,070 --> 00:37:43,850
Kelly whose book the memory code has now

823
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:45,080
been out for a few years and she

824
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:48,170
suggests a way that the people of that

825
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:49,970
time could pass information to each

826
00:37:55,690 --> 00:37:52,640
other without writing without any such

827
00:37:57,850 --> 00:37:55,700
tools but orally and I would highly

828
00:38:00,609 --> 00:37:57,860
recommend that people look up that book

829
00:38:02,290 --> 00:38:00,619
the memory code by dr. Lynn Kelly and

830
00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:02,300
have a look it's a fascinating theory

831
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:04,790
she's presented at a number of times to

832
00:38:09,850 --> 00:38:07,010
skeptical meetings and it's gone down

833
00:38:12,730 --> 00:38:09,860
very well so with that I will leave

834
00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:12,740
Stonehenge as it appeared in the skeptic

835
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:17,710
magazine September 2016 vol 36 number 3

836
00:38:25,359 --> 00:38:23,530
you can of course download that issue of

837
00:38:40,359 --> 00:38:25,369
the magazine along with most others from

838
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:40,369
our website www.jfn.co.jp/toho and your

839
00:38:52,910 --> 00:38:41,700
pleasure and your leisure

840
00:38:59,160 --> 00:38:56,310
hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy

841
00:39:01,079 --> 00:38:59,170
cast each week Fraser Cain and I take

842
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,089
our listeners on a fact-based journey

843
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:03,280
through the cosmos with our weekly

844
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:06,010
podcast we explain not just what we know

845
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:08,830
but how we know what we know about this

846
00:39:14,130 --> 00:39:11,680
universe that we share check us out at

847
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:14,140
astronomy cast calm and look for us in

848
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:16,540
itunes google play and wherever you

849
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:19,900
download podcasts see online

850
00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:37,470
come with me now to the year 2002 when a

851
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:39,780
very young richardsaunders appeared on

852
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:43,330
Eastside FM radio community radio here

853
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,910
in Sydney I was nearly president of the

854
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:47,680
Australian skeptics and this was one of

855
00:40:00,630 --> 00:39:51,070
my first forays into a radio studio to

856
00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:00,640
do an interview on point 7 FM II so I

857
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:03,430
read her at the time is just on 28 and a

858
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:05,410
half minutes past 4:00 before that

859
00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:07,240
announcement we heard two songs from the

860
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:09,880
rollicking Count Basie big band from the

861
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:12,400
curb jazz masters number two CD April in

862
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:15,130
Paris and it was followed by I sent for

863
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:17,350
you yesterday well the music was on my

864
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:20,290
studio guests that sorting into to join

865
00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:23,050
me nor to welcome Richard Saunders the

866
00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:24,550
president of the Australian skeptics

867
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,320
incorporated welcome to Assad radio

868
00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:28,960
thank you very much okay well how would

869
00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:30,700
you define the Australian skeptics

870
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:33,160
incorporated we're a group of people

871
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:35,770
interested in claims of the paranormal

872
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:37,930
and the supernatural and all that sort

873
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:40,000
of thing from a scientific point of view

874
00:40:46,020 --> 00:40:43,450
in other words we don't discount ghosts

875
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:46,030
or spoon bending or ESP or tarot card

876
00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:49,990
reading or UFOs until we've investigated

877
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:51,820
them properly but we don't go in

878
00:40:55,590 --> 00:40:53,890
thinking they're a load of bunk to start

879
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:55,600
with we go in and see if there's

880
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,520
anything there to investigate at all so

881
00:41:01,230 --> 00:40:59,200
I guess you're on water would be sick

882
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:01,240
the ever to seek the evidence we get

883
00:41:05,310 --> 00:41:02,800
claims all the time of all sorts of

884
00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:05,320
weird and wonderful things going on and

885
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:08,440
until we investigate them properly we do

886
00:41:12,690 --> 00:41:10,570
not say they're rubbish because they

887
00:41:14,609 --> 00:41:12,700
might well be true so everything

888
00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:14,619
everything is included until execs quit

889
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:16,660
something like that yeah but then again

890
00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:19,330
we can't ever truly discount anything

891
00:41:23,609 --> 00:41:21,640
entirely because next year someone might

892
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:23,619
come along and say ah you see

893
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:25,810
homeopathic medicine really works and

894
00:41:30,090 --> 00:41:27,910
then we'd have to admit yes it does when

895
00:41:33,870 --> 00:41:30,100
was the associate your group father

896
00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:33,880
first founded in the roundabout 1980

897
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:37,750
1981 it sort of came out of all the the

898
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:40,270
fun stuff from the 1970s because the

899
00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:44,530
Yuri Gillis oh yeah now I was well as we

900
00:41:47,370 --> 00:41:46,630
all were slightly younger in the 1970s

901
00:41:50,339 --> 00:41:47,380
and I tired

902
00:41:52,259 --> 00:41:50,349
that very well the the UFO craze the

903
00:41:55,650 --> 00:41:52,269
Bigfoot craze lost not the Loch Ness

904
00:41:57,870 --> 00:41:55,660
monster and poor sri gila so was there

905
00:41:59,999 --> 00:41:57,880
any any a particular event or or

906
00:42:02,789 --> 00:42:00,009
incident that triggered formation of the

907
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:02,799
of the group or it just sort of grew out

908
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:07,089
of a spontaneous combustion as a way I

909
00:42:11,849 --> 00:42:08,980
like that analogy that's quite good

910
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:11,859
there's a similar organization started a

911
00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:13,599
few years earlier in the United States

912
00:42:16,890 --> 00:42:15,640
called X it's called psycho I'm just

913
00:42:18,749 --> 00:42:16,900
going to try to find the committee for

914
00:42:20,579 --> 00:42:18,759
this scientific investigations have

915
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:20,589
claims of the paranormal words that

916
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:23,410
effect they started up and in sort of

917
00:42:26,759 --> 00:42:25,089
inspired some people out here to do a

918
00:42:29,819 --> 00:42:26,769
similar sort of thing I think they were

919
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:29,829
also started up because of the claims of

920
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:31,359
a regular and Bigfoot and all the rest

921
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,000
of it cuz I heard an interesting story

922
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:36,880
about uri geller that that he was at a

923
00:42:40,769 --> 00:42:38,529
dinner party and somebody was rubbishing

924
00:42:42,299 --> 00:42:40,779
all these claims and when this this

925
00:42:47,549 --> 00:42:42,309
critic got home and tried to open his

926
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:47,559
front door all these keys well that's

927
00:42:53,009 --> 00:42:49,150
that's the thing you see now you say

928
00:42:54,509 --> 00:42:53,019
you've heard a story and if that if you

929
00:42:56,910 --> 00:42:54,519
were to present that in the court of law

930
00:42:59,009 --> 00:42:56,920
i don't think you'd get very far see now

931
00:43:01,380 --> 00:42:59,019
why we can't discount that because we

932
00:43:02,819 --> 00:43:01,390
weren't there we don't know if his keys

933
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,829
were bent we don't even know if it's a

934
00:43:06,690 --> 00:43:04,720
true story so it's very hard to comment

935
00:43:10,529 --> 00:43:06,700
on those things but what we can say is

936
00:43:13,650 --> 00:43:10,539
that as far as we know people like

937
00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:13,660
arugula use simple magic tricks we can

938
00:43:16,799 --> 00:43:15,369
do them ourselves there are many people

939
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:16,809
in the skeptics who know how to bend

940
00:43:20,759 --> 00:43:18,970
spoons it's not terribly difficult right

941
00:43:23,009 --> 00:43:20,769
guess you've got to become a celebrity

942
00:43:25,289 --> 00:43:23,019
before it becomes something that people

943
00:43:27,269 --> 00:43:25,299
notice yes I think that's right other

944
00:43:28,769 --> 00:43:27,279
words people otherwise people just get

945
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:28,779
annoyed at you for bending their cutlery

946
00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:31,089
what would you say the the aims or the

947
00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:33,640
objectives of your group well as I say

948
00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:35,980
we we investigate claims of the

949
00:43:39,630 --> 00:43:38,200
paranormal and we like to be a sort of a

950
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:39,640
sounding board for the media in the

951
00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:41,920
public if they come across something

952
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:44,140
that sounds a bit far-fetched perhaps

953
00:43:48,329 --> 00:43:46,240
and they're interested to know if

954
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:48,339
there's been any research done in this

955
00:43:52,289 --> 00:43:50,049
area they can always come and ask us cuz

956
00:43:55,019 --> 00:43:52,299
we probably have looked into into it

957
00:43:57,359 --> 00:43:55,029
what types of activities or functions or

958
00:43:59,249 --> 00:43:57,369
services do do you offer to your members

959
00:44:00,300 --> 00:43:59,259
we certainly keep them updated into all

960
00:44:03,210 --> 00:44:00,310
our latest

961
00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:03,220
ventures looking for ghosts or debunking

962
00:44:08,940 --> 00:44:07,030
this or or investigating I should say we

963
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,950
hold dinners four times a year here in

964
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:10,480
Sydney and other state capitals hold

965
00:44:15,090 --> 00:44:12,910
dinners as well and we also have a great

966
00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:15,100
annual conference which is in a

967
00:44:18,990 --> 00:44:16,900
different capital city every year this

968
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:19,000
year Melbourne how often do people

969
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:22,330
mistake skepticism thoughts or cynicism

970
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:27,040
all the time all the time so I make a

971
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:30,460
plea to everybody we will happily accept

972
00:44:36,420 --> 00:44:34,570
any claim be it spontaneous human

973
00:44:37,050 --> 00:44:36,430
combustion which has been explained

974
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:37,060
anyway

975
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:40,570
spoon bending as I said before strange

976
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:43,690
medical claims if there is supporting

977
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:45,610
evidence that's the key

978
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:48,400
we will not rule out anything so I guess

979
00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:51,220
your your motto is to be to look at

980
00:44:55,110 --> 00:44:52,600
everything with a critical eye as

981
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:55,120
opposed to a negative on exactly well

982
00:44:59,280 --> 00:44:56,560
Richard when we're not looking on your

983
00:45:01,200 --> 00:44:59,290
website the list of of topics or

984
00:45:03,330 --> 00:45:01,210
subjects that you cover would surely

985
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,340
satisfy a Philistine well I would

986
00:45:08,970 --> 00:45:05,920
certainly hope so it's one of the the

987
00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:08,980
the plagues of being a skeptic or in a

988
00:45:14,130 --> 00:45:11,620
skeptical organisation is you're almost

989
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,140
expected to make intelligent concise

990
00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:16,960
comments on hundreds of topics and to

991
00:45:21,630 --> 00:45:19,230
know them back to front and if you don't

992
00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:21,640
people assume that's a sign of weakness

993
00:45:26,220 --> 00:45:23,020
now you don't know what you're talking

994
00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:26,230
about yeah well we do our best there's

995
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:28,390
there been any change in focus or

996
00:45:33,810 --> 00:45:31,450
emphasis over the last a couple of

997
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:33,820
decades in the sense that you've gone

998
00:45:37,980 --> 00:45:36,010
have you gone from astrology and UFOs

999
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:37,990
and crop circles to things like

1000
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:40,150
aromatherapy things Shu vitamin

1001
00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:42,250
supplements that type of thing generally

1002
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:43,750
speaking that's right I mean we don't

1003
00:45:47,970 --> 00:45:46,480
we're not discounting or forgetting or

1004
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:47,980
ignoring all those other topics but

1005
00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:50,290
quite frankly they have been done to

1006
00:46:00,780 --> 00:45:56,710
death well that's true and and how many

1007
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:00,790
times must you debunk something before

1008
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:03,550
you can simply say look honestly let's

1009
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:07,210
move on now obviously there's no there's

1010
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:09,610
no basis behind things like astrology

1011
00:46:13,230 --> 00:46:11,410
and water divining but they're

1012
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:13,240
evergreens they keep cropping up but yes

1013
00:46:16,530 --> 00:46:13,990
now our

1014
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,540
focus is more on the so called

1015
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:18,400
alternative medicine and that sort of

1016
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:20,530
stuff it's a bit like the great

1017
00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:24,130
control-c with unique water that that's

1018
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:26,830
been raging and not so not so recent

1019
00:46:32,490 --> 00:46:29,110
past yeah well that's another thing it's

1020
00:46:35,850 --> 00:46:32,500
simply at this stage things like unique

1021
00:46:37,650 --> 00:46:35,860
water at just another unproven claim now

1022
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:37,660
we're not saying that in the years to

1023
00:46:42,210 --> 00:46:39,610
come the science science may discover oh

1024
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:42,220
there really is something here but it's

1025
00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:44,050
we just have to learn but with all the

1026
00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:46,150
other unproven claims at the moment like

1027
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:48,580
I say before we will keep an open mind

1028
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:50,290
so I guess for something like

1029
00:46:54,359 --> 00:46:52,570
alternative medicine a better

1030
00:46:59,070 --> 00:46:54,369
terminology from your perspective would

1031
00:47:01,800 --> 00:46:59,080
be a natural therapy or not even that

1032
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:01,810
because natural is another marketing

1033
00:47:06,540 --> 00:47:03,610
word it doesn't mean anything what's

1034
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:06,550
natural I mean natural is early death

1035
00:47:11,220 --> 00:47:09,280
pain and suffering for humans so if

1036
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:11,230
these things claim to prevent that

1037
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:13,119
that's hardly natural natural is just a

1038
00:47:16,290 --> 00:47:14,650
marketing tool it sounds good

1039
00:47:19,650 --> 00:47:16,300
it sounds good it doesn't actually have

1040
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:19,660
to do anything or back up its claims if

1041
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:21,970
you want the card the cold facts people

1042
00:47:28,050 --> 00:47:25,930
modern scientific medicine has given

1043
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:28,060
this population a longer and healthier

1044
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:30,609
life span than at any time in human

1045
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:33,280
history I know where I'd put my bets

1046
00:47:39,390 --> 00:47:37,450
what about the the raging debate of

1047
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:39,400
creationism versus Darwinism

1048
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:42,130
well it's raging in the minds of the

1049
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:43,810
creationists and there's not too many of

1050
00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:45,850
them out there but they are a powerful

1051
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:49,540
lobby this debate was one hundred and

1052
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:51,970
hundred years ago or so there's no

1053
00:48:00,870 --> 00:47:55,690
debate I mean it's a religious dogma

1054
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:00,880
it's their tiny little view of how the

1055
00:48:06,450 --> 00:48:03,609
universe came to be it's no more valid

1056
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:06,460
than all the other cultures who have

1057
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:08,950
equally interesting stories about how

1058
00:48:14,580 --> 00:48:11,170
the universe came to be but they have

1059
00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:14,590
the lobby part and thankfully in this

1060
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:16,180
country it's no longer taught in schools

1061
00:48:19,260 --> 00:48:17,650
but there are I think there are states

1062
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:19,270
in the United States and many states yes

1063
00:48:22,859 --> 00:48:21,460
it's growing with quite frightening it's

1064
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,869
very frightening it has absolutely

1065
00:48:28,609 --> 00:48:24,400
nothing to do with science there is no

1066
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:28,619
scientific backing up for a creationist

1067
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:31,359
ideas they call it creationist science

1068
00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:32,890
again that's just simply a marketing

1069
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:34,630
marketing tool it is not science that

1070
00:48:39,210 --> 00:48:36,250
there's nothing through science they

1071
00:48:40,770 --> 00:48:39,220
start with the answer this is the answer

1072
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:40,780
this is how it happened

1073
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:43,150
whereas science never starts with the

1074
00:48:47,820 --> 00:48:46,000
answer so that's always easier if you

1075
00:48:52,290 --> 00:48:47,830
couldn't work backwards just like

1076
00:48:54,690 --> 00:48:52,300
economics I as I mentioned at the start

1077
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:54,700
of my show my interesting in trying to

1078
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:56,170
get somebody from your group was

1079
00:49:00,450 --> 00:48:58,480
triggered when I took my children to the

1080
00:49:01,830 --> 00:49:00,460
Chinese dinosaurs exhibition of

1081
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:01,840
destroying his human I'll notice that

1082
00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:03,609
he's driving skeptics were us a sponsor

1083
00:49:09,950 --> 00:49:05,310
them yeah why did you choose to do that

1084
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:09,960
we the museum approached us and said

1085
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:12,970
would we like to be sponsors and sponsor

1086
00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:15,520
the feathered dinosaurs it's one of our

1087
00:49:21,810 --> 00:49:18,420
you know long-standing issues is the

1088
00:49:24,089 --> 00:49:21,820
creationist lobby and we've sponsored a

1089
00:49:25,859 --> 00:49:24,099
group of dinosaurs on display now in the

1090
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:25,869
Australian Museum which show an

1091
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:29,050
unmistakable transition from dinosaurs

1092
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:32,650
to birds this is blatant this is here it

1093
00:49:36,839 --> 00:49:34,810
is there are bits there are missing

1094
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:36,849
links it's all there and there's many

1095
00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:40,450
more in China so this is a great

1096
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:42,070
opportunity for us to make a strong

1097
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:45,130
statements and support for for the

1098
00:49:47,970 --> 00:49:46,930
theory of the evolution and the

1099
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:47,980
Australian Museum which we're

1100
00:49:54,420 --> 00:49:51,609
tremendously grateful to believe also

1101
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:54,430
that you have a very generous prize no

1102
00:49:59,640 --> 00:49:57,970
less than $100,000 older people one

1103
00:50:01,859 --> 00:49:59,650
hundred thousand dollars you often get a

1104
00:50:04,370 --> 00:50:01,869
prize I get on community radio and the

1105
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:04,380
challenge is the challenge is now if you

1106
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:08,170
if you can perform a supernatural or

1107
00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:11,440
paranormal act now I'm talking about

1108
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:13,990
astrology I'm talking about faith

1109
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:16,510
healing clairvoyance tarot card reading

1110
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:20,170
spoon bending all the rest of it all of

1111
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:24,970
the above if you can show us through an

1112
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:28,720
independent referee so we'll we'll set

1113
00:50:32,310 --> 00:50:30,730
up a test with you agreed mutually

1114
00:50:34,380 --> 00:50:32,320
agreed conditions we'll have an

1115
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:34,390
independent umpire to judge the test and

1116
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:39,040
if you after the tests show us that yes

1117
00:50:43,350 --> 00:50:41,110
you can divine the future by look

1118
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:43,360
the Stars or whatever it may be we'll

1119
00:50:48,420 --> 00:50:46,480
give you $100,000 not only that will put

1120
00:50:50,070 --> 00:50:48,430
you in direct contact with a mr. James

1121
00:50:52,770 --> 00:50:50,080
Randi in the United States who will

1122
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:52,780
offer a similar test give you around

1123
00:50:58,110 --> 00:50:54,850
about two million dollars of Australian

1124
00:50:59,130 --> 00:50:58,120
easy money don't you think I mean there

1125
00:51:02,430 --> 00:50:59,140
are hundreds of people out there saying

1126
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:02,440
they can do this done but well they say

1127
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:06,310
the the phones are lit up we're calling

1128
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:10,210
all astrologers come on finally how can

1129
00:51:14,070 --> 00:51:12,850
people get in touch with you even even

1130
00:51:15,390 --> 00:51:14,080
the ones who are not interested in

1131
00:51:17,820 --> 00:51:15,400
winning the money just joining your

1132
00:51:29,810 --> 00:51:17,830
group right are the best ways simply

1133
00:51:44,610 --> 00:51:43,080
www.hyken.com what we do so come by and

1134
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:44,620
have a look and who knows you might

1135
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:45,250
learn something

1136
00:51:55,620 --> 00:51:47,850
well I just repeat that address

1137
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:55,630
www.kickstartcart.com built for the D

1138
00:51:59,970 --> 00:51:58,480
scale and depth of the the website there

1139
00:52:01,250 --> 00:51:59,980
interesting that was indeed well I'd

1140
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:01,260
like to thank my guests this afternoon

1141
00:52:05,370 --> 00:52:03,400
Richard Saunders president of the

1142
00:52:08,610 --> 00:52:05,380
Australian skeptics incorporated Enki

1143
00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:08,620
once again even more important perhaps

1144
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:11,080
than the website there's $100,000 with a

1145
00:52:14,610 --> 00:52:13,330
potential of 2 million I liked it I'd

1146
00:52:16,830 --> 00:52:14,620
like to win this money myself

1147
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:16,840
folks I really couldn't prove to the

1148
00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:18,370
satisfaction of a mutually agreed

1149
00:52:23,130 --> 00:52:21,100
independent referee judge whatever you

1150
00:52:26,010 --> 00:52:23,140
want to call them that you can carry a

1151
00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:26,020
paranormal or some freakish act well I

1152
00:52:30,060 --> 00:52:27,670
wouldn't call it freakish this is

1153
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:30,070
another reason why we're doing this we

1154
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:32,920
want seriously want to find someone who

1155
00:52:37,950 --> 00:52:35,110
can back up a paranormal claim because

1156
00:52:40,350 --> 00:52:37,960
it would it would expand the horizons of

1157
00:52:42,510 --> 00:52:40,360
science it would just be wonderful we

1158
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:42,520
really do want to find someone who can

1159
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:44,290
tell the future or bend a spoon or

1160
00:52:47,970 --> 00:52:46,090
something like that it would just be a

1161
00:52:50,070 --> 00:52:47,980
revelation and we would nominate them

1162
00:52:51,690 --> 00:52:50,080
for the Nobel Prize and and all the rest

1163
00:52:52,830 --> 00:52:51,700
of all I think of another approach would

1164
00:52:56,340 --> 00:52:52,840
be defunct

1165
00:52:58,620 --> 00:52:56,350
pointy well let's I think fully

1166
00:53:01,080 --> 00:52:58,630
appropriate point to call on my next

1167
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:01,090
song June Christie backed up by the

1168
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:03,760
stand kids in the orchestra and it's how

1169
00:53:22,650 --> 00:53:20,610
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1170
00:53:25,530 --> 00:53:22,660
zone now as mentioned at the top of the

1171
00:53:29,310 --> 00:53:25,540
show there is an update to the what

1172
00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:29,320
doctors don't tell you story and this

1173
00:53:34,890 --> 00:53:32,110
update appeared not long after I

1174
00:53:36,660 --> 00:53:34,900
recorded the segment and this comes to

1175
00:53:38,610 --> 00:53:36,670
us once again from the website of 2gb

1176
00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:38,620
and I'll link to this in the show notes

1177
00:53:44,810 --> 00:53:41,560
and the story says anti-vaccination

1178
00:53:47,070 --> 00:53:44,820
magazine lashes out at Ben Fordham

1179
00:53:49,530 --> 00:53:47,080
alternative medicine magazine what

1180
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:49,540
doctors don't tell you has lashed out

1181
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:52,570
after a push from Ben Fordham so the

1182
00:53:57,330 --> 00:53:54,400
publication's scrapped from supermarket

1183
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:57,340
shelves despite initially defending

1184
00:54:01,260 --> 00:53:59,050
their decision to stock the magazine

1185
00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:01,270
allegedly filled with conspiracies

1186
00:54:06,210 --> 00:54:03,790
dangerous misinformation and dodgy

1187
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:06,220
medical advice following Ben's interview

1188
00:54:10,290 --> 00:54:08,170
as dr. Darren Saunders Coles and

1189
00:54:12,060 --> 00:54:10,300
Woolworths committed to removing it from

1190
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:12,070
all stores nationwide

1191
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:15,760
in the days since Ben says he's been

1192
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:17,850
bombarded with messages from

1193
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:20,650
anti-vaxxers telling me to drop off and

1194
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:23,290
mind my own business and open my eyes to

1195
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:26,410
alternative medicine the publishers say

1196
00:54:31,380 --> 00:54:28,390
the decision to remove the magazine was

1197
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:31,390
quote misplaced and reactionary our

1198
00:54:36,090 --> 00:54:33,370
problem is not with the supermarket's

1199
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:36,100
it's with Ben Fordham and 2gb and quote

1200
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:38,130
they told news.com that are you

1201
00:54:42,930 --> 00:54:40,720
responding to the accusations been

1202
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:42,940
defended his pro vaccination stance

1203
00:54:47,610 --> 00:54:45,250
quote I suppose if the publisher is

1204
00:54:49,950 --> 00:54:47,620
having a go at me they're also having a

1205
00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:49,960
go at the medical experts who slammed

1206
00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:52,660
their magazine I'm comfortable in the

1207
00:54:56,700 --> 00:54:54,670
knowledge that vaccines are supported by

1208
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:56,710
the Department of Health Australian

1209
00:55:01,230 --> 00:54:58,720
Medical Association the nurses and

1210
00:55:03,420 --> 00:55:01,240
midwifery Association the Australian

1211
00:55:06,170 --> 00:55:03,430
Academy of Science the Centre for

1212
00:55:08,850 --> 00:55:06,180
Disease Control and countless other

1213
00:55:11,100 --> 00:55:08,860
international medical bodies vaccines

1214
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:11,110
save millions of people's lives every

1215
00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:13,690
year thanks to vaccines smallpox has

1216
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:16,030
been eradicated and polio has all but

1217
00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:16,570
vanished

1218
00:55:20,810 --> 00:55:19,150
so I'd say to the publishers and to the

1219
00:55:26,810 --> 00:55:20,820
many people who've been trying to

1220
00:55:29,620 --> 00:55:26,820
educate me online get nicked in quote so

1221
00:55:33,849 --> 00:55:29,630
unsurprisingly Ben Fordham is

1222
00:55:37,809 --> 00:55:33,859
covering maybe he knows very well by now

1223
00:55:41,859 --> 00:55:37,819
that the anti-vaxxers are voiced hrus

1224
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:41,869
militant fanatical people it's all part

1225
00:55:45,490 --> 00:55:43,910
of the conspiracy thank you to those

1226
00:55:48,130 --> 00:55:45,500
people who continue to support the

1227
00:55:50,289 --> 00:55:48,140
skeptic zone during these strange times

1228
00:55:52,059 --> 00:55:50,299
and I know there are some of you who

1229
00:55:54,490 --> 00:55:52,069
can't at the moment support the skeptic

1230
00:55:56,829 --> 00:55:54,500
zone in the way you used to but that's

1231
00:55:58,990 --> 00:55:56,839
quite understandable I think everybody

1232
00:56:01,269 --> 00:55:59,000
understands at the moment but if you are

1233
00:56:03,370 --> 00:56:01,279
in the position of supporting the show

1234
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:03,380
it's certainly appreciated and it's

1235
00:56:08,859 --> 00:56:05,529
certainly necessary I think I mentioned

1236
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:08,869
well some weeks ago now and things were

1237
00:56:12,460 --> 00:56:10,490
starting to shut down that all my other

1238
00:56:14,859 --> 00:56:12,470
sources of income personally have dried

1239
00:56:15,279 --> 00:56:14,869
up disappeared vanished going out the

1240
00:56:18,220 --> 00:56:15,289
door

1241
00:56:19,420 --> 00:56:18,230
know what to do with the largely to do

1242
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:19,430
with the entertainment industry

1243
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:23,089
including and this really really tugs at

1244
00:56:27,999 --> 00:56:26,450
my heart the live science shows from the

1245
00:56:30,249 --> 00:56:28,009
mystery investigators I think have all

1246
00:56:32,349 --> 00:56:30,259
been put on ice at the moment so that's

1247
00:56:35,499 --> 00:56:32,359
a great pity that is a great pity and I

1248
00:56:38,380 --> 00:56:35,509
look forward eventually to when they can

1249
00:56:41,980 --> 00:56:38,390
return so thank you indeed and you can

1250
00:56:44,650 --> 00:56:41,990
sponsor the skeptic zone at skeptic zone

1251
00:56:47,859 --> 00:56:44,660
TV go there and just click the patreon

1252
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:47,869
or the PayPal link and away you go

1253
00:56:52,180 --> 00:56:50,210
but for this week this is Richard

1254
00:56:58,900 --> 00:56:52,190
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1255
00:57:01,599 --> 00:56:58,910
Australia you've been listening to the

1256
00:57:06,180 --> 00:57:01,609
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1257
00:57:09,490 --> 00:57:06,190
website at WWDC because she knows

1258
00:57:13,690 --> 00:57:09,500
contacts and to access the bat catalog

1259
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:13,700
of episodes going back to 2008 you can

1260
00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:15,410
follow the skeptic zone podcast on

1261
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:18,470
twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1262
00:57:24,099 --> 00:57:20,750
facebook page or leave a review on

1263
00:57:27,490 --> 00:57:24,109
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1264
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,500
zone via patreon or paypal the skeptic

1265
00:57:32,019 --> 00:57:29,839
zone podcast is an independent

1266
00:57:33,999 --> 00:57:32,029
production reviews and opinions

1267
00:57:36,130 --> 00:57:34,009
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1268
00:57:39,110 --> 00:57:36,140
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1269
00:57:48,780 --> 00:57:39,120
or any other skeptical organisation

1270
00:57:53,620 --> 00:57:51,190
hello to the afterthoughts the people

1271
00:57:59,200 --> 00:57:53,630
who listen after the music let's play

1272
00:58:01,420 --> 00:57:59,210
the dice game and we'll use a d20 this

1273
00:58:04,450 --> 00:58:01,430
week haven't used a d20 for those of you

1274
00:58:05,830 --> 00:58:04,460
new to this if you're listening to the

1275
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:05,840
skeptic zone for the first time you

1276
00:58:11,230 --> 00:58:07,610
think hang on isn't the show over no

1277
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:11,240
sometimes it's not and this is the part

1278
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:13,520
of the show where I roll a dice die

1279
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:17,330
three times and you get to guess what

1280
00:58:21,330 --> 00:58:19,310
number comes up and if you think you're

1281
00:58:23,860 --> 00:58:21,340
using psychic powers that's fine

1282
00:58:27,550 --> 00:58:23,870
probably using dumb luck like the rest

1283
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:27,560
of us though here we go roll number one

1284
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:30,170
this is out of 20 remember so one two

1285
00:58:35,370 --> 00:58:31,310
three four five six seven and all the

1286
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:35,380
way up to 20 here we go roll one and

1287
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:39,920
it's rested on number ten there's my

1288
00:58:43,990 --> 00:58:42,250
skeptic zone pentile here it is I

1289
00:58:47,460 --> 00:58:44,000
usually write these down because

1290
00:58:55,390 --> 00:58:47,470
sometimes okay first number this week

1291
00:59:02,740 --> 00:58:55,400
ten and here we go roll number two fell

1292
00:59:06,820 --> 00:59:02,750
under the canoe ten oh well you know ten

1293
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:06,830
that's easy to remember so ten ten what

1294
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:08,090
are the chances folks what are the

1295
00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:10,330
chances here we go

1296
00:59:25,810 --> 00:59:22,870
no not I'm not making this up ten Wow I

1297
00:59:26,830 --> 00:59:25,820
suppose you know if you do this long

1298
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:26,840
enough

1299
00:59:34,930 --> 00:59:29,870
if you roll lots and lots of dice long

1300
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:34,940
enough how about that today's winning

1301
00:59:48,420 --> 00:59:44,190
numbers are 10 10 and 10

1302
00:59:52,830 --> 00:59:48,430
what the hell you tried it